Migdal Eder-The Truth of Messiahs Birth
CATEGORIES: 5854 | Calendar

Joseph F. Dumond

Joe Started Sightedmoon in 2005 to assist him in spreading his understanding of the Sabbatical and Jubilee Years according to Torah.
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Published: Jul 12, 2018 - (5856)
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News Letter 5854-016
The 2nd Year of the 4th Sabbatical Cycle
The 23rd year of the 120th Jubilee Cycle
The 29th day of the 4th month 5854 years after the creation of Adam
The 4th Month in the Second year of the Fourth Sabbatical Cycle
The 4th Sabbatical Cycle after the 119th Jubilee Cycle
The Sabbatical Cycle of Sword, Famines, and Pestilence

July 14, 2018

Shabbat Shalom To the Royal Family,

This week in the News

In the News this week we were all overjoyed at the rescue of 12 young boys and their soccer coach from the flooded caves of Thailand just before the monsoon rains began. It actually rained the night the last one was brought out. This rescue was not without a cost. One of the Thai Navy Seal team died in those caves preparing the rescue that would eventually save all of those boys.

But this news story that caught the attention of the world eclipsed the news also in Thailand of 33 Chinese nationals who drown in a tour boat accident and they also had 23 still missing.

Also, this week in Hiroshima Japan they had 14 inches of rain in just a few hours and the resulting flood and avalanches killed in the last report I had about 200 people. This is not climate change. Do not be deceived. It is Yehovah continuing to hand out the curses of Lev 26 on the nations around the world. We used to report it each week but then it became too often and was then considered normal or the new normal. This is not normal. I do urge you to watch and refresh yourselves with our teaching on the curses of Lev 26.

https://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=AwrEwNij8UdbPOsAehIXFwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZ2doOWtkBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDQjU3MDJfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Rain+Flood+Hiroshima&fr=yhs-Lkry-SF01&hspart=Lkry&hsimp=yhs-SF01#id=3&vid=53cf2f2b9336fac3710120a44336449c&action=view

Also this week we watched President Trump go to the NATO meetings. And he was told just how few Allies the USA had and not to alienate those few who are left.

Then President Trump slams Germany for their gas contracts with Russia.

While I agree with President Trump and love what he is doing, he is, so it seems to me, alienating all of his allies and especially Germany. Bible prophecy says that it will be the Assyrians, who today are known as the Germans and who are the leading nation of the European Union, who will lead a surprise attack again the USA. Genesis in the prophecy about Joseph tells us that he will be grievously wounded by the archers.

Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, A fruitful bough by a fountain; His branches run over the wall. The archers have sorely grieved him, And shot at him, and persecute him:

And as you read this the President is then off to visit President Putin. President Trump is like a wrecking ball in NATO. He claims he has gotten what he wanted but at what price? Prophecy is telling us that the price indeed is going to be very dear.

Who will see the 5th New moon First?

After the Sabbath tonight once the sun has set the moon should be visible to be seen and the start of the 1st day of the 5th month begins. I would like everyone to go out with your families and see who can see the first crescent and note the local time. Then I would like everyone to write in the comments section at the end of this article when they saw the moon and where they are around the world. Will you do that? For Example, Joseph Dumond Saw the moon at 6:55 PM Eastern Time Zone Orangeville Ontario Canada.

It will be interesting to see New Zealand and Australia first and then to see Fiji and Hawaii the last to sight the moon as we go around the world. Never mind that others saw it before you were able to write it down. Let’s see just how many are actually looking for it each month.

Just enter it one time. All comments must be approved by me so you will have to wait until I get home and open up the website. Then I will begin to approve them. Who is going to be first?

Septennial Torah Portion # 68

We have resumed the Septennial Torah readings on our site. We used to do them and I would comment each week.
I will give you the reading for this week and you can go and read them without my comments. Instead of them being the annual Torah readings that are done in one year, the Septennial reading is done twice over the 7 year Sabbatical cycle.

The first week’s reading would have been done on April 1, 2017. This is the start of the first week in this 4th Sabbatical cycle right after the Shemitah year was done. Since this time, this Sabbath is now the 68th week of this Sabbatical Cycle. The readings for this Sabbath today and for this upcoming 69th week are as follows.

Week #           Shabbat Date     Torah             Neviim              Ketuvim           Brit Chadasha
68                  14/07/2018        Ex 22             Isaiah 28-29       Ps136-138        John 10 Comentary on this weeks Torah Portion can be read at this link.

69                  21/07/2018        Ex 23             Isaiah 30-33       Ps 139             John 11

Announcements

I would like to share with you a couple of developments at sightedmoon.com

1st I want to thank Jan Sytsma for completing the work or organizing all the newsletters into subject categories. She has worked at this tirelessly and caused James many a sleepless night as he was the one to post them and develop the new pages on the website. Please do go and look up each of the categories and see what articles are there about that subject. Exa Passover and all the other Feasts. You can go to the library and then click on the link Library Article Archives.

2nd We mentioned before about the teaching lessons that are being developed for sightedmoon so that you can print these off and use them in your study groups or school lessons to teach about certain subjects. We now have two up and ready for your use. You can see these lessons also at the same link as above.

The Metonic Cycles

The Hebrew calendar uses a 19 years Metonic cycle to determine when the leap years are. That is every 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 an extra month is added automatically. Why do they do this and where did they get this idea from? 2016-2017 starting at in the month of Tishri was the 1st year of the new 19 year cycle. This makes this Tishri the start of the second year. The commandment to keep the 19-year cycles is found in Lev 29:4. Go and read it.

While you are searching for that scripture, let me explain this 19-year cycle to you.

For astronomy and calendar studies, the Metonic cycle or Enneadecaeteris (from Ancient Greek: ??????????????????, “nineteen years”) is a period of very close to 19 years that is remarkable for being nearly a common multiple of the solar year and the synodic (lunar) month. The Greek astronomer Meton of Athens (fifth century BC) observed that a period of 19 years is almost exactly equal to 235 synodic months and, rounded to full days, counts 6,940 days. The difference between the two periods (of 19 years and 235 synodic months) is only a few hours, depending on the definition of the year.

Considering a year to be 1/19 of this 6,940-day cycle gives a year length of 365 + 1/4 + 1/76  days (the unrounded cycle is much more accurate), which is slightly more than 12 synodic months. To keep a 12-month lunar year in pace with the solar year, an intercalary 13th month would have to be added on seven occasions during the nineteen-year period (235 = 19 × 12 + 7). When Meton introduced the cycle around 432 BC, it was already known by Babylonian astronomers.

A mechanical computation of the cycle is built into the Antikythera mechanism. (The Antikythera mechanism is an ancient analog computer designed to predict astronomical positions and eclipses for calendrical and astrological purposes, as well as the Olympiads, the cycles of the ancient Olympic Games.)

 

The cycle was used in the Babylonian calendar, ancient Chinese calendar systems (the ‘Rule Cycle’) and the medieval computus (i.e. the calculation of the date of Easter). It regulates the 19-year cycle of intercalary months of the Hebrew calendar.

At the time of Meton, axial precession had not yet been discovered, and he could not distinguish between sidereal years (currently: 365.256363 days) and tropical years (currently: 365.242190 days). Most calendars, like the commonly used Gregorian calendar, are based on the tropical year and maintain the seasons at the same calendar times each year. Nineteen tropical years are about two hours shorter than 235 synodic months. The Metonic cycle’s error is, therefore, one full day every 219 years, or 12.4 parts per million.

The Metonic cycle has an error in it? Would Yehovah’s system have such an error?

Again from The Hebrew Calendar;

The present Hebrew calendar is the product of evolution, including a Babylonian influence. Until the Tannaitic period (approximately 10–220 CE), the calendar employed a new crescent moon, with an additional month normally added every two or three years to correct for the difference between twelve lunar months and the solar year. The year in which it was added was based on observation of natural agriculture-related events in Israel.[Specifically, the ripening of the barley crop; the age of the kids, lambs, and doves; the ripeness of the fruit trees; and the relation of the date to the tekufah (seasons). See the Talmud, Sanhedrin 11b] Through the Amoraic period (200–500 CE) and into the Geonic period, this system was gradually displaced by the mathematical rules used today. The principles and rules were fully codified by Maimonides in the Mishneh Torahin the 12th century. Maimonides’ work also replaced counting “years since the destruction of the Temple” with the modern creation-era Anno Mundi.

The Hebrew lunar year is about eleven days shorter than the solar year and uses the 19-year Metonic cycle to bring it into line with the solar year, with the addition of an intercalary month every two or three years, for a total of seven times per 19 years. Even with this intercalation, the average Hebrew calendar year is longer by about 6 minutes and 40 seconds than the current mean tropical year, so that every 216 years the Hebrew calendar will fall a day behind the current mean tropical year; and about every 231 years it will fall a day behind the mean Gregorian calendar year.

When I do the math and subtract the time from when the new system was codified by Rambam, (Maimonides) or whether I use the same error that the Metonic Cycles mentions, i come up with the same answer of 3 to almost 4 days in error today in 2018.

Using the Metonic Cycles error of one full day every 219 years, I take 2018 and subtract the year of codification about 1180 CE by Maimonides and you get 838 years. You now divide the 838 years by 219 to get 3.8 days. The Hebrew calendar is going to be out by as much as 3.8 days since it was codified by Maimonides. This also means that the Holy Days will also be out by this same amount of time.

You can do the math using the 216 year error as well.

Roy Hoffman of the New Moon Society, which is now sighting the moon and gathering information for the Sanhedrin for the day they once again revert back to the sighting of the moon, states that;

For over a thousand years, the Hebrew calendar has been fixed by calculation. Today, the Hebrew calendar does not match that fixed by observing the Moon. Even though the gap between the two calendars continues to increase, we do not have the authority to alter the calendar until a new Sanhedrin (religious high court) is re-established and is widely recognized.

So instead of doing the right thing and doing what Yehovah has said, the Jews would rather remain unified, and have all of them keep the same mistake at the same time. Yes, you read that right. They know the Hebrew calendar is wrong and off by a few days from the original, but they will not correct it. What about you? Will you obey Yehovah or are you one of those who follows the lemmings off the cliff?

Back to the Metonic article;

Traditionally, for the Babylonians and Hebrew lunisolar calendars, the years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19 are the long (13-month) years of the Metonic cycle. This cycle, which can be used to predict eclipses, forms the basis of the Greek and Hebrew calendars, and is used for the computation of the date of Easter year.

The Babylonians applied the 19-year cycle since the late sixth century BC. As they measured the moon’s motion against the stars, the 235:19 relationship may originally have referred to sidereal years, instead of tropical years as it has been used for various calendars.

Now let me quote to you how Judaism justifies this Metonic cycle and at the same time show you where we are in that Metonic cycle.

The lunar month on the Jewish calendar begins when the first sliver of moon becomes visible after the dark of the moon. In ancient times, the new months used to be determined by observation. When people observed the new moon, they would notify the Sanhedrin. When the Sanhedrin heard testimony from two independent, reliable eyewitnesses that the new moon occurred on a certain date, they would declare the rosh chodesh (first of the month) and send out messengers to tell people when the month began.

The problem with strictly lunar calendars is that there are approximately 12.4 lunar months in every solar year, so a 12-month lunar calendar is about 11 days shorter than a solar year and a 13-month lunar is about 19 longer than a solar year. The months drift around the seasons on such a calendar: on a 12-month lunar calendar, the month of Nissan, which is supposed to occur in the Spring, would occur 11 days earlier in the season each year, eventually occurring in the Winter, the Fall, the Summer, and then the Spring again. On a 13-month lunar calendar, the same thing would happen in the other direction, and faster.

To compensate for this drift, the Jewish calendar uses a 12-month lunar calendar with an extra month occasionally added. The month of Nissan occurs 11 days earlier each year for two or three years, and then jumps forward 30 days, balancing out the drift. In ancient times, this month was added by observation: the Sanhedrin observed the conditions of the weather, the crops and the livestock, and if these were not sufficiently advanced to be considered “spring,” then the Sanhedrin inserted an additional month into the calendar to make sure that Pesach (Passover) would occur in the spring (it is, after all, referred to in the Torah as Chag he-Aviv, the Festival of Spring!).

A year with 13 months is referred to in Hebrew as Shanah Me’uberet (pronounced shah-NAH meh-oo-BEH-reht), literally: a pregnant year. In English, we commonly call it a leap year. The additional month is known as Adar I, Adar Rishon (first Adar) or Adar Alef (the Hebrew letter Alef being the numeral “1” in Hebrew). The extra month is inserted before the regular month of Adar (known in such years as Adar II, Adar Sheini or Adar Beit).

In the fourth century, Hillel II established a fixed calendar based on mathematical and astronomical calculations. This calendar, still in use, standardized the length of months and the addition of months over the course of a 19 year cycle, so that the lunar calendar realigns with the solar years. Adar I is added in the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years of the cycle. The current cycle began in Jewish year 5758 (the year that began October 2, 1997).

1997 was 5758 according to Judaism and this Metonic cycle began that year. The leap years or the extra month, Adar Bet is added just before Aviv the following year of 1998.

Now get out your charts that we have provided in the Prophecies of Abraham and begin to count the 19-year cycles. Aviv 1998 being year 1. When you do this 2016 is year 19 in the Metonic cycle and it is a leap year. An extra month will be added just before Aviv 2016. you can also go to this link to see that yes indeed an extra month is added in March 2016.

We have been telling you for some time now that in 2016 The Hebrew Calendar and the Sighted Moon Calendar will be 30 days apart due to the fact the Barley will be ripe and Passover 2016 will be about March 24th.

There will also be a dark moon at this time and again in the fall at Sukkot. A dark moon warns us of famine coming.

We have also been telling you that the time when this calendar issue will be finally fixed is in 2030 when the two witnesses bring back the 13 tribes of Israel from their imminently impending captivity to keep Passover in Jerusalem.

But there is going to still be those who want to use the Hebrew Calendar and not the sighted moon calendar.

During WW II 6 Million Jews were slaughtered. WHY? They all used the Hebrew Calendar. They all went by the conjunction of the moon and they all went by the postponement rules. They all were keeping the Holy Days at the wrong time. It was the same as if they were keeping the Saturday Sabbath on Sunday. It is the wrong day to what Yehovah commanded them to keep.

And on top of this none of them were keeping the Sabbatical years.

So Judaism was not keeping the 4th commandment and for not doing so they were punished and the price for breaking the 4th commandment is death.

Exo 31:14  You shall keep the Sabbath therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone that defiles it shall surely be put to death. For whoever does any work in it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15  Six days may work be done, but on the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to Jehovah. Whoever does any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16  Therefore the sons of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant. 17  It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever. For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed.

They had broken the sign that identified them as Yehovah’s. Yes, they kept the weekly Sabbath, but not the Holy Days and not the Sabbatical years.

They had become deceived.

Now let us look at what we are told in Revelation.

Rev 12:13  And when the dragon saw that he was cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who bore the man child . 14  And two wings of a great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the serpent’s face. 15  And the serpent cast out of his mouth water like a flood after the woman, so that he might cause her to be carried away by the river. 16  And the earth helped the woman. And the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17  And the dragon was enraged over the woman, and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Here then is my question to you.

When the woman flees into the wilderness where she is protected for 3 1/2 years from Satan, who are these other people that Satan now makes war with who keep the commandments and the testimony of Yehshua?

Why did they not flee with the rest of the woman into the wilderness?

I say to you that they do not go because they are following the Jewish Hebrew Calendar with the postponement rules and the Metonic cycles of added leap years without regard to the barley being Aviv.

When you count out the Metonic cycle as we have now shown to you, the year 2017 is year one in the Metonic cycle. 2030 would then be the 14th year of this cycle and it is a forced leap year.

Passover 2030 will be about March 19 according to the Sighted moon calendar. Or at least it has the potential at this date. We will not know for sure until that very year. But because of the Metonic cycle, 2030 is the 14th year and a leap year, making Passover come on April 18 of 2030. Please do check out both of those links to the two different calendars for the smae year with the same Holy Days on different dates.

We are given a very specific command about Passover. We are to be ready to flee and at this time Yehovah will judge.

Exo 12:11  And you shall eat of it this way, with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. And you shall eat it in a hurry. It is Jehovah’s passover. 12  For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the first-born in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. And I will execute judgments against all the gods of Egypt. I am Jehovah.

When one group eats Passover in 2030, they will then flee to the wilderness and they will be pursued by the army of the beast. When that army is swallowed by the earth, the beast then turns to make war on those gathering in Jerusalem for the Passover on April 18.

The two witnesses are killed during this time. They have caused the world trouble for the past 3 1/2 years. It is because of this trouble that Israel is brought back to the land from captivity. But just like Jacob, it is a deception to slaughter them all once again. This is why the woman flees when she sees the armies surrounding Jerusalem. But those coming late or those who do not see the armies and are going to keep the Passover according to the Hebrew calendar will be slaughtered as Revelation warns you.

After this, there will be no more calendar confusion. It will be the original sighted moon calendar based on the barley being Aviv. And those in the wilderness with the Messiah at Bozrah will be keeping the Holy Days at the right time and the Sabbath and the Sabbatical years.

 

Are You Going to Follow Man’s Rules or Yehovah’s Commandments? The Choice is Yours? Remember though, you must pay the price if you are wrong.

Migdal Eder & the Birth of Messiah

We first presented the following article in 2016 which was shown to us by Chad Wilheim.

Just a few weeks ago we shared with you the deception of the Aleph Tav. How Satan has impersonated these two to lead people away from the truth. Today we are going to share with you another one of those truths that very few talk about and yet it makes so much sense and affirms what we already knew.

Satan has deceived the whole world. Everyone except you right. No, he has deceived the whole world.

Rev 12:7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

In Isaiah 14:12 we are told how Satan would even think to become like God.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
You said in your heart,
I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’

And it is in this method of being “LIKE” Yehovah that he has deceived the whole world and that includes all of us.
How many of you are now still keeping and celebrating Christmas, the birthday of Jesus the Messiah?

Yehshua said that Satan was the father of lies.

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

And it is these lies that have been passed down to us from our fathers.

Jer 16:19 O LORD, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of distress, the nations will come to You from the ends of the earth, and they will say, “Our fathers inherited nothing but lies, worthless idols of no benefit at all.” 20 Can man make gods for himself? Such are not gods!…

Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen.

Once we learn the truth about how our fathers have lied to us we want nothing to do with it all together. So we shun all activities surrounding the Christmas Story.But in so doing Satan has again kept us from the truth. First in believing the lie and then in ignoring the truth as we stay away from the lies.

But the best lies are often told with a mixture of truth in them. Let us now search out the truth of the birth of Yehshua and understand it as it should be in the plan of Yehovah.

This article is presented by Chad and Marilyn Wilhelm, who shared it with me last fall (2015) and I have waited until now (2016) to share it with you. It fits perfectly with our teaching last week on the birth of Yehshua being on the Feast of Trumpets. Again stop and think. Mary had given birth and would be unclean for 40 days.

Lev 12:2  Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, If a woman has conceived seed and has borne a male, then she shall be unclean seven days; as on the days of her menstrual impurity she shall be unclean. 3  And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. 4  And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying thirty-three days. She shall touch no holy thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying are fulfilled.

And the nursing baby Yehshua would have touched her in order to be breastfed and each time the baby touched the unclean Mary, the baby too would be unclean.

Lev 15:19  And if a woman has an issue, and her issue in her flesh is blood, she shall be in her impurity seven days. And whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening. 20  And everything that she lies on in her impurity shall be unclean. Everything also that she sits on shall be unclean. 21  And whoever touches her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening. 22  And whoever touches anything that she sat on, shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening. 23  And if it is on the bed or on anything on which she sits, when he touches it, he shall be unclean until the evening.

So exactly how would the infant Yehshua be able to go into the Temple on the 8th Day of Sukkot to be circumcised as some teach you that His birth was on the 1st day of Sukkot? Just stop and think for a moment. It is impossible for the infant to go up to the Temple until at least 40 days after His birth. This is just another indicator we have that He was born on the Feast of Trumpets. More again on this next week. But this week I want to share this teaching from Chad.

The Greek and Hebrew fonts do not come across on this website and are shown as ???. So if you want them they are all on Chad’s site which you can link to at the end of the article.

Migdal Eder & the Birth of Messiah

My sincere hope, brethren, is that by the end of this teaching, you will truly get a better picture of the birth of our Messiah rather than the traditional view that has become the norm passed down from the early Church Fathers. Tradition (not the Bible) says that Yeshua‘s birthplace was in a cave over which the Basilica of the Nativity was built in Bethlehem. According to Origen of Alexandria (185 – 254 CE), the Roman Emperor Constantine built a Basilica over this cave in the 4th Century at the request of his mother Helena. It was destroyed and the present basilica was built by Emperor Justinian in 530 AD. Origen of Alexandria wrote that it was generally accepted that Yeshua was born in a cave at Bethlehem which could be visited in his day. (Origen of Alexandra, “Against Celsus” in Volume 1, Chapter 51. )

There is no evidence that can be found within the Bible to support that claim! Let’s turn to a familiar passage of scripture and see what clues we can uncover from the text.

Revisiting the Birth: Clues from the Text

Luk 2:1-20 “And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.” {KJV} (emphasis mine)

In verses 7,12, and 16 I have put in bold what the KJV has translated from the Greek Text. These are the words with the ‘Strong’s Concordance” reference:   “ inG1722 a manger;G5336 “ however, when one looks at this particular text through an actual Greek Interlinear there is a missing Greek word. Here is what the text looks like from the Interlinear: “ ??G1722 IN ??G3588 THE ?????G5336 MANGER “ the Greek word   ??G3588    is not translated as it should be- although it is of my opinion that the translators in an attempt to smooth out the text inserted “a” instead of “the”. Let’s now take a look at this interesting Greek word. According to the Thayer Greek Dictionary, this Greek word is defined as ‘the definite article’, “the” in its masculine, feminine or neuter gender…the demonstrative pronoun. Examples: “this”, “that”, or “these”. The next word that should be studied in this passage of Luke chapter 2 is “manger”. The Greek word here is G5336 ?????? phatne? fat’-nay (from the Strong’s Concordance). This word comes from the Greek word ????????? pateomai (to eat); a crib (for fodder): – manger or stall. Listed below are the Hebrew words that are most similar to the Greek word ?????? phatne? (these are also the Septuagint related words).

H18 ????? evus:           a manger, stall (from H75 [ abas ] –to fodder, fatted, stalled)                                       H723 ???? urvah :           a herding place for an animal                                                                                               H1098 ????? belil :     feed, fodder                                                                                                                              H7517 ??? rephet:     a stall

This word G5336 ?????? phatne? could be translated as ‘manger’ but if we look into the ancient time and culture during Yeshua’s day, I’m of the opinion that this ‘manger’ was more of a stable or stall to house livestock. We will discuss this further in a bit.

Luke 2:15 “…Let us now go to Bethlehem…”

After the shepherds were told about the Messiah, how did they know where to go?

Luk 2:15-16 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

Where would the shepherds have known to go in Bethlehem to find baby Yeshua? There were no directions provided… (more on this later as well).

What we know from the Bible about Micah 5:2 and Luke 2:1-20

Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem (Beit –lechem – ‘house of bread’– Micah 5:2). Luke records the birth place of Messiah as Bethlehem in Luke 2:11. Bethlehem is the city of David and of his father’s inheritance (1 Sa 16:4, 17:15, 20:6). Although the Brit Chadashah does not tell us where in Bethlehem Yeshua was born, the Tanakh does.

Location of Yeshua’s Birth

We are all familiar with this verse:

Mic 5:2 “And thou, Beit-Lechem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth–to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth are of old, From the days of antiquity.”

But do we go back and read the verses for context? Micah 4:1 – 5:4

Mic 4:1 “But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.

Mic 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem. Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail. Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies. Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion. But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor. Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth. Mic 5:1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek. But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.”

To summarize: YHWH explains what it will be like in the millennial reign of Messiah (4:1 – 4:7). Micah 4:8 – 5:4 explains what will happen before that day!

The significance of ‘Migdal Eder’

Mic 4:8 “And thou, O tower ldgm of the flock  rdu, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.”

H4026 aldgm / ldgm migda?l / migda?la?h BDB Definition:

  • Tower 1a) tower 1b) elevated stage, pulpit 1c) raised

    bed

H1431 (ROOT WORD) ldg ga?dal BDB Definition: 1) to grow, become great or important, promote, make powerful, praise, magnify, do great things 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to grow up 1a2) to become great 1a3) to be magnified

What did the Sages of Israel think about Micah 4:8 and 5:1-2?

Targums: Micah 4:8 “And you, O Messiah of Israel, who has been hidden away because of the sins of the congregation of Zion, the kingdom shall come to you, and the former dominion shall be restored to the kingdom of the congregation of Jerusalem.”

Targums: Micah 5:1 “And you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, you who were too small to be numbered among the thousands of the house of Judah, from you shall come forth before me the Messiah, to exercise dominion over Israel, he whose name was mentioned from of old, from ancient times.”

The sages of old understood Micah 4:8 and 5:1-2 to be about the coming Messiah!

Yeshua’s Birth at Migdal Eder

Where have we seen these words before? Migdal Eder?

Gen 35:16-21 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour. 17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also. 18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. 19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem. 20 And Jacob set a pillar upon her grave: that is the pillar of Rachel’s grave unto this day. 21 And Israel journeyed, and spread his tent beyond (from) tower of Eder [Migdal Eder].

RACHEL’S TOMB IN BETHLEHEM.
÷áø øçì ááéú ìçí.

 

Why is this significant? Because even the sages of old understood this passage of scripture was a prophecy concerning Messiah! They understood that Genesis 35:21 and Micah 4:8 were connected! According to Targum Jonathan (Jonathan Ben Uzziel) Genesis 35:21 is written this way:

Gen 35:2 “And Jakob proceeded and spread his tent beyond the tower of Eder, the place from whence, it is to be, the King Meshiha (Messiah) will be revealed at the end of the days.” (emphasis mine)

Shadow Picture of Messiah Yeshua

Just as the naming of Leah’s children reveals YHWH’s plan of Messiah: The Messiah came as Elohim’s Son [Reuben – ‘see, a son’]. He was heard [Simeon – to hear] by some and joined to [Levi – joined] by others. We should praise him [Judah – praised] because he paid the wages [Issachar – wages] of sin. Soon he will come to dwell [Zebulun – habitation] with us and He will rule/judge [Dinah – Judgment] over the whole world.

Also note how Rachel’s children are thematically connected to Messiah Yeshua:

Joseph: bread man, suffering servant, exalted to the right hand of Pharaoh, savior of Egypt

Yeshua: bread of life, suffering servant, exalted to the right hand of the Father, savior of the world.

What about Benjamin?

How is Rachel’s other son Benjamin a shadow picture of Messiah [thematically related]?

Gen 35:18-19,21 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni (son of sorrow): but his father called him Benjamin (son of right hand). And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which isBethlehem. 21 And Israel journeyed, and spread his tent beyond (from) tower of Eder [Migdal Eder]. Messiah was also born in Bethlehem, at Migdal Eder. He came the first time as a suffering servant, a son of sorrows (Isaiah 53:4). Yeshua now sits at the RIGHT HAND of the Father (Mark 16:19)… Our Heavenly Father will send him again a second time to return to put down iniquity and evil, set up the Kingdom, and rule/reign for a thousand years (Rev 19 & 20)!

Location of Migdal Eder

After Jacob left Bethel he came to Migdal Eder (the tower of the flock) and there Rachel began hard labour and as she delivered Benjamin she died and was buried there in ”…Ephratah which is Bethlehem” (Gen. 35:19). After burying Rachel, Jacob moved his flocks beyond Migdal Eder (tower of Eder/Flock). This would pinpoint the location as being near (to the North) to what is present-day Bethlehem. This establishes that Migdal Eder, “the tower of the flock” was in Bethlehem.

Keep in mind that the area which is called Bethlehem in biblical times covered a larger area than does present-day Bethlehem and Migdal Eder was in that city, or just on the outskirts of the city. The oldest tradition based upon Gen 35 and 48 places ancient Bethlehem Ephratah northeast of the current day city and about 4 miles south of the Old City of Jerusalem.

Other sources also suggest that Migdal Eder or the tower of the flock is a location on the outskirts of Bethlehem. The LXX has the location between Bethel and Rachel’s tomb. Eusebius locates it 1.9km east of Bethlehem (3.Eusebius Onamasticon 43.12) and others with a place called Siyan al Ghannam SW of Jerusalem (4.Avraham Negev: Archeological encyclopaedia of the holy land pg 339)

This puts Migdal Eder very close to the modern day marker of rbk lhkr  (Kever Rakhel)- the tomb of Rachel. Isn’t it interesting that it is the third holiest site in Judaism? Our brother Judah continues to pray for Rachel and her children (tribes of Yosef and Benyamin)!

The Significance of Migdal Eder and the Holy Temple

Now that we have begun to uncover some clues about where Yeshua was born, let’s see if we can incorporate anything to do with the Holy Temple and the Temple services. When the Temple stood, there was the twice-daily offering of a male lamb instructed in the Torah called the Tameed (continual) burnt offering (Num 28:3). It was the first and last offering of the day in the Holy Temple. This offering was specific in that it could only be a male lamb without spot or blemish. It had to be perfect, or Tameem (complete, perfect).

According to the Mishnah (Baba K. 7.7), expressly forbids the keeping of flocks throughout the land of Israel, except in the wilderness and the only flocks otherwise kept, would be those for the Temple-services (Baba K. 80a) [Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Edersheim pg131]

Who were the ‘Shepherds’?

Luke 2:1-20 In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration when Quirinius was governor of Syria. And all went to be registered, each to his own town. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the town of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. And while they were there, the time came for her to give birth. And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.
The Shepherds and the Angels
And in the same region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with great fear. And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. And this will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.” And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,
“Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!”
When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has made known to us.” And they went with haste and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby lying in a manger. And when they saw it, they made known the saying that had been told them concerning this child. And all who heard it wondered at what the shepherds told them. But Mary treasured up all these things, pondering them in her heart. And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them.

“…and, accordingly, that the shepherds, who watched over them, were not ordinary shepherds.” [The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Edersheim pg 131]

More than likely, these shepherds resided near Bethlehem were none other than the shepherds from ‘Migdal Eder’ who were well aware what the sages of old taught that the Messiah might well be announced from ‘Migdal Eder’ in Bethlehem. There is a good possibility that these Shepherds were either ‘Levites’ or designated Shepherds specifically trained to watch over sheep for Temple Services. I believe that they would have cared for and inspected each newborn lamb of any defects or blemishes and it was these ‘Levites’ (in my opinion) that declared whether or not these ‘newborn’ clean animals were acceptable for Temple service.

The sign: a baby wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a THE manger

The Greek word used here for ‘swaddling cloths’ is sparganoo? spar-gan-o’-o G4683 [Strong’s] From sparganon (a strip; from a derivative of the base of G4682 meaning to strap or wrap with strips); to swathe (an infant after the Oriental custom): – wrap in swaddling clothes. It is interesting that this Greek word is used because it comes from the Greek word ????????? sparasso? G4682, a verb, meaning to convulse or tear. Continuing on with the Strong’s definition: A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: prolongation from spairo (to grasp, apparently strengthened from G4685 through the idea of spasmodic contraction).

What I am getting at here is that this Greek word translated as ‘swaddling cloths’ was more applicable to preventing a newborn animal or baby from scratches or injury. To further emphasise my point, In the book “The Chronological Gospels” by Michael Rood, Rood comments on the swaddling cloths from Luke 2:7: “A child of the King and potential heir to the throne was salted and swaddled as part of the initial dedication of the child and in recognition of the parents’ responsibility to raise the child according to the straight path

Eze 16:4 And as for your birth, on the day you were born your cord was not cut, nor were you washed with water to cleanse you, nor rubbed with salt, nor wrapped in swaddling cloths.

Soon after birth, the child was washed with salted water and bound in the swaddling cloths with all of his limbs made straight…Swaddling cloths were made from priests’ garments that were no longer serviceable. This cloth was used for the wicks in the Temple menorah and for swaddling the sons of kings…” (pg. 52).

Harold Smith , in “The Birth- Revisited” writes:

Approaching this subject from the Hebrew perspective will show, that while swaddling “cloths” were used in the handling of newborn babies, swaddling “bands” (as referenced in Job 38:9 (and Eze 16:4)) were used for subduing animals prior to sacrifice. These “swaddling bands” were strips of gauze-like cloth used to restrain a lamb being prepared for inspection before sacrifice to prevent thrashing that they not “blemish” themselves.

Could Yeshua, the ‘Lamb of Elohim, that takes away the sins of the world’ have been born at the birthing place (Tower of the Flock/ Migdal Eder) that was used to bring forth newborn lambs destined for the Temple? The place where the shepherds used to inspect the lambs of any blemish to determine if they could be used for Temple sacrifices? Not only the ‘Tameed’ offering (continual burnt offering), but also the Passover lambs for Israel and the High Priest? Could Yeshua have been wrapped in the clothing of the garments of Temple Levites?

“…Let us know go to Bethlehem…” (continued)

How did the shepherds know where to go? Harold Smith writes:

“There was no need for the angels to give these shepherds directions to the birth place because they already knew. These were the men who raised sacrificial lambs that were sacrificed in the Temple. When the angelic announcement came, they already knew exactly where to go, as Luke 2 indicates, for the sign of the manger could only mean the manger at the base of the Tower of the Flock, as it is found in the original Greek wording of Luke 2:7,12 and 16! You cannot explain the meaning or direction of the sign they were given or their response unless you have the right manger (stall), the right shepherds and the proper Hebraic perspective.”

Extra Thoughts…

Messiah Yeshua, who is The Passover Lamb, came into Jerusalem riding on a donkey

Rabbinic tradition has the High Priest riding on a donkey going to and from Bethlehem (perhaps Migdal Eder?) with his Passover Lamb back into Jerusalem through the ‘Sheep gate’- why is this significant? In the book of Nehemiah we read the following:

Neh 3:1 “Then Eliashib [H475] the High Priest rose up with his brethren the priests, and they builded the sheep gate; they sanctified it, and set up the doors of it; even unto the tower of Meah they sanctified it, unto the tower of Hananeel.” [This was the 1st gate listed in Jerusalem] (emphasis mine)

The meaning of Eliashib is a contraction of two words, ‘el’ and ‘shuv’, meaning El (God) will restore.

Petri Paavola, in his research of “Jerusalem’s gates spiritual meaning” writes the following: “The high priest Eliashib with his brethren and priests built the Sheep Gate and set up its doors. This is the first gate mentioned. The spiritual meaning of the Sheep Gate is that the high priest was building it and that through the Sheep Gate lambs and sheep were brought to the temple, in which they were offered.”

Messiah Yeshua is the High Priest of the renewed Covenant, who is the Lamb, who was offered for the sake of our sins. The Spiritual meaning of the Sheep Gate is the death and offering of the Lamb (Messiah), through which sacrifice, blood and resurrection bring us forgiveness of sins and redemption. According to Nehemiah 3:1, the High Priest was setting up the doors of the Sheep Gate, which means that He is the Door of the sheep. What did Yeshua proclaim? John 10:7 “…I am the door of the sheep.”

*[Side Note] In my opinion, Yeshua came in through the sheep gate, ‘destined’ to be ‘offered’. Yeshua was hoisted on the execution tree at the same time the 1st Tameed offering was offered up in the Temple (the 3rd hour) and after the last Tameed offering at the 9th hour, Yeshua said “It is finished”… dying on that tree to redeem us of our sins (and to restore us back to the Father.) Just as Eliashib (meaning El will restore), the High Priest rebuilt the door to the ‘Father’s House’ –so too, does our High Priest Messiah Yeshua, who is the door, restores us back to the Father !!!

Putting all the clues together

What we know is that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem (Mic 5:2). He was revealed from Migdal Eder (Mic 4:8). This Tower more than likely laid close to the town near the road to Jerusalem (old Hebron road – Hwy 60 in modern-day Israel) and not far away from where the Tomb of Rachel is located (current day). The Mishnah tells us that the flocks which pastured there were destined for Temple sacrifices (Shekinah 7:4). The Mishnah tells us that the shepherds (who I believe were Levites) watching over them were specifically trained to inspect the newborn lambs for any defects. This same location where newborn lambs were born and inspected, destined for sacrifice at the Holy Temple, is the same place that Messiah Yeshua was ‘born’. He was ‘inspected’ to be unblemished, and destined to be offered for us!!! The Shepherds (Levites) would have known the exact place to go look for this ‘sign’ at none other than Migdal Eder.

Here’s what I find fascinating about all this. First, it places Yeshua’s birth in the traditional location for Passover lambs to be born. Fitting, since He became the Passover Lamb of Elohim who took away the sins of the world. Second, it explains how the shepherds knew where to go to find the newborn baby — and why being wrapped in swaddling clothes would be a significant clue. Finally, it explains why those shepherds were notified as it was their holy calling to certify Temple-approved & Passover lambs upon birth.

Something else to think about…

Think of Messiah, as a newborn baby, wrapped or bound at the birthing place of the lambs ‘destined’ for Temple-Sacrifice. The Shepherds (who I believe were of the Levitical Priesthood), who had heard of the sage teachings of Migdal Eder, the Prophecy of Micah 4:8, 5:2 and Genesis 35:21 and the place where Messiah would appear. Think of all the connections of Messiah from his birth until his crucifixion… How much deeper can we draw from this than the Traditional ‘Nativity’ scene that so many people have come to believe?

Shalom & blessings,

Chad

www.returnoftheremnant.com

Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs0AACIbJbI

REFERENCES

Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Edersheim 1993

The Birth – Revisitedby Harold Smith

Where was the Birth Place of the Lord Jesus? – Cooper P Abrams III

Jerusalem’s Gates Spiritual Meaning http://www.kotipetripaavola.com/http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithwalkers/2012/12/was-jesus-born-away-in-a-manger-at-migdal-eder/#ixzz3RZw43lZ2

Jerusalem Talmud,

Babylonian Talmud,

Mishnah

Targum Jonathan

KJV

 

MIgdal

I, Jacob Howard, wrote Dr. Charlie Dyer, who is the speaker on the Land and the Book Radio, a question about Migdal-Eder, mentioned in Micah 4:8. This was Dr. Dyer’s response.

Jacob,

Thank you for your e-mail, and thanks as well for your kind words! Denny and I both appreciate the privilege God has given us to serve Him in this way. You have encouraged us both!

As far as Midgal Eder is concerned, there is no universal identification of the site. But I do believe it was a real site. The best thing I’ve read on the subject is from Alfred Edersheim’s The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah. (You can find his complete work online at Google Books.) I’ll include his quotation here, and then I’ll follow it with a few observations. (I’ll also highlight the key point he makes in the quote.)

But as we pass from the sacred gloom of the cave [i.e., he was just talking about the birth of Jesus in a cave] out into the night, its sky all aglow with starry brightness, its loneliness is peopled, and its silence made vocal from heaven. There is nothing now to conceal, but much to reveal, though the manner of it would seem strangely incongruous to Jewish thinking. And yet Jewish tradition may here prove both illustrative and helpful. That the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem, was a settled conviction. Equally so was the belief, that He was to be revealed from Migdal Eder, “the tower of the flock.” This Migdal Eder was not the watchtower for the ordinary flocks which pastured on the barren sheep ground beyond Bethlehem, but lay close to the town, on the road to Jerusalem. A passage in the Mishnah leads to the conclusion, that the flocks, which pastured there, were destined for Temple-sacrifices, and, accordingly, that the shepherds, who watched over them, were not ordinary shepherds. The latter were under the ban of Rabbinism, on account of their necessary isolation from religious ordinances, and their manner of life, which rendered strict legal observance unlikely, if not absolutely impossible. The same Mishnaic passage also leads us to infer, that these flocks lay out all the year round, since they are spoken of as in the fields thirty days before the Passover—that is, in the month of February, when in Palestine the average rainfall is nearly greatest. Thus, Jewish tradition in some dim manner apprehended the first revelation of the Messiah from that Migdal Eder, where shepherds watched the Temple-flocks all the year round. Of the deep symbolic significance of such a coincidence, it is needless to speak.

—Alfred Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, pp. 186-87

If Edersheim is correct (and I believe he is), the location for Migdal Eder would be north of Bethlehem and near the old road from Bethlehem to Jerusalem. (That road is the old “Hebron road” one drives on between Jerusalem and Bethlehem today!) I believe this puts the location somewhere between the Jewish kibbutz of Ramat Rachel and Bethlehem, probably just to the west of Har Homa. There used to be an actual sheepfold in this area where I would take our groups but, sadly, it has been covered over by the modern road that now goes to Har Homa.

A key point here. Edersheim indicates that Migdal Eder was an actual spot, but he is not saying it was a town or village. Rather, the name means “Watchtower of the flock” which seems to identify it as a specific pasture area for sheep. And the sheep that grazed here were those specifically destined for Temple sacrifice. In that sense, the shepherds keeping watch over the temple sacrifices were the ones to whom God announced the birth of the ultimate “sacrificial lamb.”

I’m attaching a screenshot from Google Earth that might be of help in identifying the location for Migdal Eder. Note that Ramat Rachel is at the top of the picture and Bethlehem is at the bottom. The road running along the left side of the picture is the old Hebron Road, and Homat Shemu’el/Har Homa is just to the right of center in the picture. Based on Edersheim’s description, I would place Migdal Eder almost in the center of the picture…north of Bethlehem, just to the west of Har Homa, and east of the road from Bethlehem to Jerusalem. Since the word means “tower of the flock” it is likely a high spot in this area where sheep would graze. The hills right around (or right at) Har Homa are probably the best possible location.

I hope this is helpful!

Charlie

 

44 Comments

  1. Ross

    Shalom Joseph,
    Fascinating article, MIGDAL EDER & THE BIRTH OF MESSIAH. Many assumptions but, they are logical and make perfect sense. Yeshua is born where the sacrificial lambs are kept, watched over and inspected before being sent to the Temple. That they bound the lambs with swaddling bands and Yeshua was wrapped in swaddling clothes cannot be just a coincidence.
    But I do have a question. You say,
    “So exactly how would the infant Yehshua be able to go into the Temple on the 8th Day of Sukkot to be circumcised as some teach you that His birth was on the 1st day of Sukkot? Just stop and think for a moment. It is impossible for the infant to go up to the Temple until at least 40 days after His birth. This is just another indicator we have that He was born on the Feast of Trumpets.”
    I’m not following. What does that mean? Does it mean Yeshua was not circumcised until the 40th day? I’m just not seeing the point?
    Also, in your discussion of Judah not keeping the Holy Days at the right time, I was struck with the realization that they are defiling the Holy Days by working and doing their own pleasure. They aren’t just missing the Feast Days,- they are SINNING ON THE VERY DAYS THEY HAVE BEEN COMMANDED TO MEET WITH YEHOVAH!
    I know that’s obvious, but sometimes I’m a bit slow and can’t see the forest for the trees.
    BTW I think you are wrong about Lev. 29:4 giving instructions on the 19 year cycle. I’m pretty sure that’s where it says pranksters will get their comeuppance.

    Reply
    • Joseph F. Dumond

      Shabbat Shalom Ross, there are some who believe that YEhshua was born on the first day of the Feast of Sukkot and then circumcised on the 8th day of Sukkot. I am addressing this argument with this statement. But let me explain it more here.
      Read this carefully
      Luke 2:20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, even as it was spoken unto them. And when eight days were fulfilled for circumcising him, his name was called JESUS, which was so called by the angel before he was conceived in the womb. And when the days of their purification according to the law of Moses were fulfilled, they brought him up to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord (as it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord), and to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
      When was Yehshua brought up to Jerusalem? Not after the 8th day. NO NO NO. He was brought up after the the time of purification were ended. Which is when?
      Read Lev 12:1 And Jehovah spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman conceive seed, and bear a man-child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of the impurity of her sickness shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a maid-child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her impurity; and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days. And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb a year old for a burnt-offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtle-dove, for a sin-offering, unto the door of the tent of meeting, unto the priest: and he shall offer it before Jehovah, and make atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the fountain of her blood. This is the law for her that beareth, whether a male or a female. And if her means suffice not for a lamb, then she shall take two turtle-doves, or two young pigeons; the one for a burnt-offering, and the other for a sin-offering: and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she shall be clean.
      So shes is unclean for 7 days just as she is in her monthly minstrel cycle and then she is unclean for a further 33 days for a total of 40 days. She cannot go up to the Temple in this state of Uncleanness. So whether Yehshua was born on the Feast of Trumpets or the Feast of Sukkot, He could not be presented at the Temple for 40 days after his birth which puts Him in the 8th month before he can go up to the Temple.
      I am glad to see the light going off about the Jews working on the Holy Days of Yehovah. Yes, you are 100% right in this.
      The discussion about Lev 19:4 is open for debate. I do not think I am wrong though. But it is a GOTCHA type of scripture.

      Reply
      • Ross

        I feel like Vinny Barbarino. I’m so confused! No matter how many times I read them, I just don’t understand how those scriptures disprove Sukkot as Messiah’s birthday. But you should know, I might just be the dumbest kid in the class.
        BUT I do know this: you are definitely wrong about Lev 29:4.
        Just hours ago the original torn pages were found hermetically sealed in a mason jar under Funk and Wagnals porch. I have them right here in front of me now and verse 4 reads. “Any man who pulls the leg of a brother may one day find a pie in the face”.
        Note: That’s Levity 29 not Leviticus.
        Have a wonderful Sabbath Day.

        Reply
  2. Mike

    Concerning “The commandment to keep the 19-year cycles is found in Lev 29:4. Go and read it.” — Isn’t this a New Testament thing found in the book of 2nd Opinions chapter 4? If one can’t find it in the Old Testament, it’s usually hidden away in this particular book.
    (Sorry… couldn’t help myself… hopefully the sarcasm/joke comes across in print.)

    Reply
    • Joseph F. Dumond

      I do believe you are right. The book of second opinions Chapter 4 has numerous views in it. Possibly more than one could read in a lifetime. Sarcasm duly noted.

      Reply
  3. Jan Sytsma

    Hey Joe, Why aren’t you providing the links to the Torah readings directly in your newsletters? If people go to Library / 3 1/2 Year Torah Readings, they can find the Torah studies you previously did. The dates are old dates, but it is easy to match up the chapters being read with that old date. For example, just look for Exodus 22 and 23 per this week’s readings. The readings are the same.
    This weeks’ Torah readings are located here:
    https://sightedmoon.com/triennial-torah-study-year-2-02072011/
    https://sightedmoon.com/triennial-torah-study-year2-09072011/

    Reply
  4. David R Smith

    Greetings Joseph,
    Either you or Chad Wilheim wrote: “In Isaiah 14:12 we are told how Satan would even think to become like God.”
    Isaiah chapter 14 has nothing whatsoever to do with Satan. He is not even mentioned BUT the subject of this chapter is mentioned.
    Verse 4 You will take up this taunt against THE KING OF BABYLON.
    This sarcastic proverb or taunt is against who?? THE KING OF BABYLON! Why then do people ignore who it is written to and insist it is about Satan? It even speaks about the King’s death and his burial.
    Verse 11 All who were kings of the nations. 10 All of them will speak and say to you: ‘You too have become as weak as we! You have become like us!’ 11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your harps; maggots are the bed beneath you, and worms are your covering.
    He is dead and maggots are is covering. People stare at his dead body that is not even given a burial.
    Verse 15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. 16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, 17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?’ 18 All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own tomb; 19 BUT YOU ARE CAST OUT, AWAY FROM YOUR SEPULCHRE, like a loathed untimely birth, clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword, who go down to the stones of the Pit, like a dead body trodden under foot. 20 You will NOT be joined with them in burial, because you have destroyed your land, you have slain your people.
    Put a stop to this deception that Satan thought he could become like God. He very well knows better than that for he knows Yahweh’s unlimited power far better then we do.
    Shalom,
    David R Smith

    Reply
    • Joseph F. Dumond

      Shabbat Shalom David, you left out verse 12 in your comment.
      Isaiah 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
      O Day Star, son of Dawn!
      How you are cut down to the ground,
      you who laid the nations low!
      You said in your heart,
      I will ascend to heaven;
      above the stars of God
      I will set my throne on high;
      I will sit on the mount of assembly
      in the far reaches of the north;
      I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
      I will make myself like the Most High.’
      And it seems the Apostle Paul agrees with me on this point.
      2 Thes 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
      The King of Babylon, and Tyre and the King of the Future World ruling Babylon is going to be possessed by Satan and taken out by Yehovah.
      Ezekiel 28:11 Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God:
      “You were the signet of perfection,
      full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
      You were in Eden, the garden of God;
      every precious stone was your covering,
      sardius, topaz, and diamond,
      beryl, onyx, and jasper,
      sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle;
      and crafted in gold were your settings
      and your engravings.
      On the day that you were created
      they were prepared.
      You were an anointed guardian cherub.
      I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God;
      in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
      You were blameless in your ways
      from the day you were created,
      till unrighteousness was found in you.
      In the abundance of your trade
      you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned;
      so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God,
      and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub,
      from the midst of the stones of fire.
      Your heart was proud because of your beauty;
      you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.
      I cast you to the ground;
      I exposed you before kings,
      to feast their eyes on you.
      By the multitude of your iniquities,
      in the unrighteousness of your trade
      you profaned your sanctuaries;
      so I brought fire out from your midst;
      it consumed you,
      and I turned you to ashes on the earth
      in the sight of all who saw you.
      All who know you among the peoples
      are appalled at you;
      you have come to a dreadful end
      and shall be no more forever.”
      IN Revelation 12:3 we are told that 1/3 of the Angels followed Satan and were also kicked out of Heaven. So at least one-third of the Angels thought that Satan was powerful enough to overtake Yehovah and they followed Satan instead.
      And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.
      How many is this third of the angels we do nto know. But we do know that some of them possessed this one man.
      Mark 5:1 They came to the other side of the sea, to the country of the Gerasenes. And when Jesus had stepped out of the boat, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit. He lived among the tombs. And no one could bind him anymore, not even with a chain, for he had often been bound with shackles and chains, but he wrenched the chains apart, and he broke the shackles in pieces. No one had the strength to subdue him. Night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was always crying out and cutting himself with stones. And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him. And crying out with a loud voice, he said, “What have you to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I adjure you by God, do not torment me.” For he was saying to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!” And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” He replied, “My name is Legion, for we are many.” And he begged him earnestly not to send them out of the country. Now a great herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside, and they begged him, saying, “Send us to the pigs; let us enter them.” So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out and entered the pigs; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea and drowned in the sea.
      David, I also checked a number of commentaries and you seem to be out of sync with them as well on this verse.

      Reply
  5. David R Smith

    Greetings Joseph,
    You do know that verse 4 explains this is not a literal statement but in Hebrew a mashal, translated as proverb, parable, aphorism or similitude or as in numerous translations, “a taunt.”. Verse 12 is dripping with sarcasm for verses 13-14 state: YOU SAID IN YOUR HEART, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’ Saying it in his heart is as close to heaven as the King of Babylon would ever get.
    You wrote: “And it seems the Apostle Paul agrees with me on this point. 2 Thes 2:3”
    Please Joe stay with the subject, the context. Paul’s subject and context has some similarities but is not referring to Isaiah chapter 14.
    You wrote: “Let The King of Babylon, and Tyre and the King of the Future World ruling Babylon is going to be possessed by Satan and taken out by Yehovah.”
    What’s that even mean? What are you saying, the King of Babylon was Satan in Isaiah 14 because he was possessed by Satan?
    Now regarding Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 we have judgements pronounced on earthly kings often claiming to be God and making many other ridiculous claims. What then does Yahweh say?
    Ez 28:2 Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre: Thus saith the Sovereign Yahweh: Because thy heart is lifted up, and thou hast said: I am God, and I sit in the chair of God in the heart of the sea: WHEREAS THOU ART A MAN, AND NOT GOD: and hast set thy heart as if it were the heart of God.
    What’s Yahweh’s judgement?
    Verse 7 Therefore behold, I will bring upon thee strangers: the strongest of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy beauty. 8 They shall kill thee, and bring thee down: and thou shalt die the death of them that are slain in the heart of the sea. 9 Wilt thou yet say before them that slay thee: I am God; WHEREAS THOU ART A MAN, AND NOT GOD, in the hand of them that slay thee?
    And now what’s the judgement on your example, the King of Tyre?
    Verse 18 By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade you profaned your sanctuaries; so I brought forth fire from the midst of you; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you. 19 All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more for ever.”
    Has Satan been killed, has he “Come to a dreadful end and shall be no more for ever.”
    Ezekiel goes on calling out judgements on Sidon, Pharaoh King of Egypt and so on. None of them are Satan and God ridicules what they brag and boast of and claim to be.
    Just because Revelation 12 and also in Job we find Satan in heaven does not mean Isaiah and Ezekiel have to also have him as their subject and we must ignore the context and begin understanding it through Revelation and Job. Yahweh created Satan evil he did not become evil but was evil from the beginning.
    From Yahshua’s own mouth: Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
    Satan never was a good guy but was created from his very BEGINNING evil, a murderer and liar.
    Joe wrote: “David, I also checked a number of commentaries and you seem to be out of sync with them as well on this verse.”
    No doubt I am and that proves what? Question Joe: Are the commentaries always “in sync” with you? Thank Yah he has opened our eyes to many truths never found in Christian commentaries.
    Always grateful Joseph for your patience and insight.
    Shalom,
    David Smith

    Reply
    • Stephen Skillitzi

      “Satan never was a good guy but was created from his very BEGINNING evil, a murderer and liar.” according to David Smith. So was/is Satan like Judas Iscariot who many think had absolutely no choice as to his predestined traitorous fate? And after 6 days of the Creation Week, when YHVH says: …indeed it was very good” [Gen.1:31], and “…all the sons of YHVH shouted for joy” [Job 38:7], that those utterances excluded the created Satan. Why? Because he was ALWAYS evil !! “Come let us reason together” says YHVH…”[Isa.1:18].. or is that invitation only within YHVH’s prerogative?

      Reply
  6. elaine

    no moon seen at all from my home in mountain home arkansas. absoloutly Love the bible studies! and everything in order and easy to find !! Many many blessings!!! Elaine

    Reply
    • Beverly

      Not seen from rural Springfield, TN either, but have so many tall trees blocking that position of the moon before I could no longer stay awake….

      Reply
      • Joseph F. Dumond

        The Sabbath is not yet over in Tenn. Go and look after the Sabbath tonight. Go and find a place where you can see and the trees are not your reason for not seeing.

        Reply
  7. Earl

    July 13 2018 at 10:32pm
    In Northridge Southern California or Los Angeles, no moon seen.
    I Love the Bible studies and this website.
    Earl

    Reply
  8. George The SpitFire

    George The SpitFire Saw the Crescent New Moon at 5:45 PM From Tamborine Mountain Australia

    Reply
  9. Pauline

    Shalom Joe
    Chris and Pauline, sighted the new moon from Brisbane, Australia at 5:24pm Shabbat evening

    Reply
  10. Ross

    Shabbat Shalom to Everyone.
    The Sabbath Day has ended here in South East Asia. It’s been very cloudy so no chance to sight the moon. And I was so looking forward to the reward promised in Lev 36 for being the first to see it! Maybe next month…
    Abundant Blessings

    Reply
  11. Frank Smyth

    Shalom Joseph.
    My understanding , like your own, is that circumcision is an 8th day event in the life of the male child of the Torah following children of Israel. Genesis17:1-27,Genesis21:7, Leviticus 12:3, Luke2:21 and Phillipians3:5.
    I’m also persuaded that circumcising a male child on Shabbat does not break the Shabbat when the child is 8 days old on Shabbat .
    From Luke 2 can I suggest that verse21 happened on Yeshua’s 8th day, and the events of Luke2:22-39 took place 33 days later “according to the Torah of Mosheh “?
    If my understanding is correct, circumcision is a family event, but dedication to Yehovah was a public, temple event after the time of the mother’s cleansing.
    Joseph, even if Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot he was then circumcised on the eight day. This was not a temple event. That came 33days later. In a casual reading of Luke 2 one could miss the distinction.
    This may help,
    Or not….
    Respectfully your Irish friend.

    Reply
  12. Jayson

    Shalom Joseph,
    I remember when you posted this article (Migdal Eder) back in 2016 and I promptly sent you the following email:
    What a pleasant surprise to see the topic of this week’s newsletter, Migdal Eder. I received the truth of this revelation back in early 2010 and have taught about Yeshua’s real birthplace and its significance ever since. This was the main topic I taught on at Sukkot three years ago. Oddly enough, I received an email from a dear friend in January of this year who told me “you just have to read this teaching” on Yeshua’s actual birthplace. I was stunned because this was the first time I had ever heard anyone else teaching on this subject. Now, after reading your latest newsletter, I see this is catching on with others. When I get a chance, perhaps I can put together some additional information that will help fill in some of the blanks that this article left unanswered. In a nutshell, I believe this nugget of truth (Migdal Eder being the actual birthplace of Yeshua) exist to further provide evidence that Yeshua is the Messiah. In my opinion, it will be evidence like this that will one day be used to convince our brother Judah that he missed Yeshua.
    I don’t have the time to fully exhaust my thoughts but, I would like to add some comments that, hopefully, will help fill in some of the “blanks”. In the same line of thought in which the question was asked in your article, “how did the shepherds know where to go when no directions were given”, one can also ask the question “how did Joseph and Mary know where to go when they were told there was no room at the inn”? No directions were given to them but yet they knew where to go. Here’s my thoughts on this.
    I agree with the opinion that these shepherds were Levites and were tending the temple flock, and therefore would have known the location of the temple stables. Here’s an important question…who was Mary and what was her lineage? Mary’s lineage through the fathers goes back to the tribe of Judah. What about her mother’s side? Mary was a cousin to Elizabeth whose father was Zachariah, a Levite priest. It is more likely than not that Mary’s mother was a Levite. If Mary’s mother was a Levite, Mary would have been familiar with the operations of the temple including the temple stables and flock. If this was the case, no directions would be necessary. As a side note, the temple stables would be immaculate and fitting for the birth of a child. Have you ever taken a tour of the Budweiser Clydesdale’s stables? They are cleaner and nicer than most people’s houses! Besides this, the temple stables would be available because the temple shepherds had the sheep out in the field this time of year.
    If Yeshua was the Passover Lamb of Elohim and his death was precisely accomplished as the Passover Lamb, would it not make sense that He was also born precisely like the Passover Lamb (location, swaddling clothes, etc.)?
    Anyone can Google “migdal eder” and find a number of pictures of ancient watch towers that will give you an idea of what these looked like. I believe there is a connection between “Migdal Eder” and the following verse:
    “The name of the Yehovah is a strong tower: the righteous run into it, and is safe.” Proverbs 18:10
    Baby Yeshua was born as the temple lambs were at the place where sacrificial lambs are born. This place was called Migdal Eder. He was given the name Yeshua at Migdal Eder and when the righteous run to His name (Yeshua means Yehovah yoshia…Yehovah saves), they are saved (Yeshua).

    Reply
  13. Clev Christian

    Shalom Joe and everyone,
    We went to sight the new moon, but it was too hazy to see anything which was a pity.
    Thank you for the work that you do in been obedient. I thank the Father in heaven for you.
    Shalom in the Messiah

    Reply
    • Joseph F. Dumond

      Where did you try to sight it from Clev?

      Reply
  14. Steven Smith

    Raining and overcast. Sundown 8:47 pm. Not able to site the crescent moon from Truro NS.
    Steven Smith and Lewis Spencer
    This weeks article very timely for me as i been reading some old Newsletters about Birth of Yehshua. Enjoyed it very much thank you Mr. Dumond

    Reply
  15. Catherine

    Despite a number of clouds, the new moon was sighted from Jacksonville, FL at 9:08 p.m. After thinking it was not going to be visible, it was especially exciting to see and certainly a gift, in multiple ways.

    Reply
  16. Jimmie Shearer

    New moon sighted in central Kentucky, USA at 9:16 pm Saturday, 16 min. after the end of sabbath local time.

    Reply
  17. Jan Sytsma

    Almost missed it. New Moon seen in SE Iowa at 8:52 PM.

    Reply
  18. intentionally anonymous

    Love the newsletter the first time around and again this time. Enjoy reading the comments too. Oh Joe, it has to be SO hard writing newsletters knowing people are going to pick at every word or phrase you use; taking literally what you meant figuratively and vice versa. Takes the enjoyment out of writing…turning education into a grueling nightmare.

    Reply
  19. Shauna Sousares

    Shalom Joseph! Shauna & Scott Sousares saw the new moon of the Fifth Month in the last hour of Shabbat, “July 14” at 8:25pm Central Daylight Time from deep in the heart of Texas, in Austin. We pray YHVH’s blessings upon you in this new month. Thank you for directing our eyes to the sky, and our hearts to Torah.

    Reply
  20. Joseph F. Dumond

    Rain and overcast in Southern Ontario. Not able to see it.

    Reply
  21. Michael and SuAnn

    New moon sighted from South Dakota at 9:10 p.m.

    Reply
  22. Kurt MacPherson

    New moon sighted at Indian Head Saskatchewan, 9:45pm. Clear sky perfect view. Awesome

    Reply
  23. GreggW

    Brother Joseph, I just spotted the New Moon! I’m in Enumclaw, Washington USA. It is Sabbath July 14, 2018 and I saw it at 8:47pm PST.
    Then I grabbed my shofar and blew it – to shock of my neighbors! Hallelujah-Yah!

    Reply
  24. Anonymous

    Crowsnest Pass Alberta ….. a perfectly calm evening and clear sky over the usually clouded mountains . I Was rather excited to get my chance to see the new moon but the mozzies were so ferocious I hitailed it back indoors in seconds….?

    Reply
  25. Barb

    A perfectly calm evening and clear sky over the usually clouded mountains in Crowsnest Pass, Alberta. But at 10.48 MST I still haven’t spotted it.

    Reply
  26. David R Smith

    Stephen Skillitzi wrote: ‘“Satan never was a good guy but was created from his very BEGINNING evil, a murderer and liar.” according to David Smith.”
    And also according to Yahshua Messiah. Ignore what I say, that’s fine but ignoring what Yahshua says will lead you to error and untruth.
    If you want to believe God made everything good and perfect and then He lost control and things began to unravel and He’s been playing catch-up ever since you’ll find that is not what scripture tells us.
    Lam 3:37 Who has commanded and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? 38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that GOOD AND EVIL COME?
    Job 2:10 (Job said) What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not RECEIVE EVIL?
    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I Yahweh do all these things.
    Am 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and Yahweh hath not done it?
    The angels know of God’s plan and rejoiced for everything He set in motion is designed perfectly to that end. Yes, everything He created (including Satan) was “very good” for the purpose His creation was to fulfill.
    Why was Yahshua “slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:8)? Because God’s plan was for redemption.
    Peter and Paul knew of God’s plan.
    Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began
    1Pe 1:20 He (Messiah) indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.
    Be thankful the Father’s plan includes you and I in this inheritance.
    Eph 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will
    Let us flee from evil that we may be conformed to Yahshua as God predetermined.
    Ro 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    I don’t believe in a God working overtime to patch up a creation that got out of control but an Almighty, Sovereign Creator who set in play His plan of redemption through His son and our saviour.
    David R Smith

    Reply
    • Ross

      Shalom David,
      I can’t agree with your take on Isaiah 14 when you say it has nothing to do with Satan. Verse 12 is plain enough.
      Isa 14:12 “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”
      And when you say verse 4 makes it not literal…, sarcasm…, a taunt against the king…, a parable; why would any of that preclude it from being prophecy? Aren’t parables, sarcasm and taunts used in prophetic Scripture?
      However, unless someone can show me otherwise, I have to agree with your thoughts on Satan being part of Yehovah’s plan. The book of Job certainly gives that impression.
      Job 1:6-8 (RNKJV)
      “6 Now there was a day when the sons of Elohim came to present themselves before YHVH, and Satan came also among them.”
      Satan, the adversary is in Heaven! That must have been before the war started. Rev12:7
      “7 And YHVH said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered YHVH, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
      8 And YHVH said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth Elohim, and escheweth evil?
      This seems to be Yehovah initiating Job’s trial.
      Almost as if, knowing Satan’s heart, He was taunting him.
      Job 1:9-12
      “9 Then Satan answered YHVH, and said, Doth Job fear Elohim for nought?
      10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
      11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.”
      Satan shows his true colours.
      “12 And YHVH said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of YHVH.”
      Here Yehovah gives Satan power over everything but Job’s life.
      Later Job acknowledges.
      Job 12:16 “With Him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are His.”
      It seems to me that in order to be able to freely choose to love our Creator, we must have an alternative,- something else to choose. Satan has been doing a great job providing that!
      I don’t think Yehovah CREATED Lucifer to be evil though. That was Lucifer’s choice. He decided to become the adversary.
      Yehovah had to know that Someone would oppose His plan and want to set up a plan of his own. So, before the angels came to be, Yeshua is established as the solution to the “make up your own plan” problem.
      Yeshua is the fail-safe. He ensures
      Yehovah’s Creation and our part in it.
      Satan is still evil, though. When Elohim “saw that it was good” I think it means that the Creation we good- not Satan.
      Abundant Blessings

      Reply
    • Stephen Skillitzi

      “If you want to believe God made everything good and perfect and then He lost control and things began to unravel and He’s been playing catch-up ever since you’ll find that is not what scripture tells us.”
      In essence David Smith is echoing this quip of Moynihan:-
      ’‘You’re entitled to your own opinions,’ quipped American politician Daniel Patrick Moynihan sometime in the last century, ‘but not your own facts.’
      by David saying: “you’ll find that is not what scripture tells us.” But, David, if there is one frustratingly unclear historical period in Scripture it is: exactly who/when/how/where “The Beginning” is/was, all in accurate chronological sequence… please oblige me, anyone.
      “I don’t believe in a God working overtime to patch up a creation that got out of control but an Almighty, Sovereign Creator who set in play His plan of redemption through His son and our saviour.”
      So David: Let’s use a rough analogy of a masterful ‘Shakespeare’ writing and then directing a political/historical stage-play [say: ’Hamlet’], and watching it unfold in real-time but allowing for the imperfect actors’ idiosyncratic performances, with minimum external interference. Now that’s being a creative director (eg. YHVH) in total but flexible overall control of the sundry on-stage “slings and arrows of outrageous fortune”, and also avoiding for YHVH 6000 years of boring ‘cosmic or global angelic and human Predestination’. Me, just sayin’! … as I “look through the glass darkly, but then [hopefully] face to face” [1Corin.13:12].

      Reply
  27. Daniel and Debka Fullington

    We looked for the New Moon starting Thursday, July 12th. Looked again on Erev Shabbat – no moon to be seen. Waited to see it Sab.,July14th but thunderstorms prevented us. Finally (!) sighted it Sunday evening, July 15 @ 8:15. Enos Corner, Ind. (Near Evansville,Ind.)

    Reply
  28. David R Smith

    Greetings Ross,
    Thanks for your response.
    Ross wrote: “I can’t agree with your take on Isaiah 14 when you say it has nothing to do with Satan. Verse 12 is plain enough.”
    Sure, if you isolate it from the context and are convinced the Latan word Lucifer (meaning light bringer) is another name for Satan you could probably convince anyone to believe that. Just don’t read the rest of the chapter and don’t find out that many kings, pharaohs and emperors gave themselves the title of Morning Star.
    Disregard verse 4 where the subject is actually named – “the king of Babylon.”
    Dismiss verse 10 where we’re toll the King of Babylon has become weak “like us.” Has Satan become weak like men?
    Discount the facts in verse 11 where “maggots are the bed beneath you, and worms are your covering.” Does Satan have a body that maggots and worms can eat?
    Even in your verse 12 you overlook the last half, “How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!” Where did Satan ever “lay the nations low?” But Jeremiah says, How the hammer of the whole earth is cut down and broken! HOW BABYLON has become a horror among the nations!” (Jer 50:23).
    What about verse 16-17 which reads, “IS THIS THE MAN who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?” Is Satan a “man”?
    Ross wrote: “I don’t think Yehovah CREATED Lucifer to be evil though. That was Lucifer’s choice. He decided to become the adversary.”
    Do you believe Yahweh created evil? Do you believe Yahshua that Satan was evil from the beginning?
    Ross added: “Yehovah had to know that Someone would oppose His plan and want to set up a plan of his own. So, before the angels came to be, Yeshua is established as the solution to the “make up your own plan” problem.”
    Can you provide us with any scriptures for this theory of yours?
    Thanks again.
    Shalom,
    David Smith

    Reply
  29. David R Smith

    Greetings,
    Very eloquent Stephen but where’s the substance? This is not politics or the theatre for we have a foundational Word given to us for instruction and guidance. Where is your belief supported by this word? If you believe Satan was created good and then turned evil explain Yahshua’s words in John 8:44 and show us a good Satan in scripture.
    Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
    30 And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.
    31 What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who is against us?
    Explain words like “foreknew” and “predestined” in context. What’s wrong with an Almighty, Sovereign God who takes care of us from start to finish? If He is for us then let’s just thank Him and rejoice and not fuss over our limited amount of free will.
    Shalom,
    David Smith

    Reply
    • Stephen Skillitzi

      David, without me chasing ALL your ‘rabbits down into their burrows’, you appear to have more time than me for an extended exchange. Over the decades of such spirited encounters we both probably have often toggled between applying Proverbs 26:4 and/or 26:5…. both unflattering, and potentially mere ‘shadow-boxing’.
      My alleged “eloquence” and my confessed “rough analogy” are axiomatically poetic-license, not normative “substance”-exuding.
      You reference John 8:44 [“… from the beginning…”] WITHOUT responding to my prior logical challenge:- “But if there is one frustratingly unclear historical period in Scripture it is: exactly who/when/how/where “The Beginning” is/was, all in accurate chronological sequence… please oblige me….” 
      Hence I’ll borrow, (with all due respect to you, a presumed seasoned debater), from our Master’s method of dealing with a priori evasiveness. See Mk.11:33.
      Your evocation of “foreknew and predestined in context” should not preclude generic interpolations.
      eg., YHVH’s overarching Plan of Redemption is individually consummated, or not. Phil.3:13,“We have not YET apprehended…” and potentially may not ever, if…. . Given what’s at stake, that sobering reality is not, as you opine: ”fussing over our limited amount of free will” too much.

      Reply
  30. Ross

    Shalom David,
    I did say,
    “Yehovah had to know that Someone would oppose His plan and want to set up a plan of his own. So, before the angels came to be, Yeshua is established as the solution to the “make up your own plan” problem.”
    I’ll address your last question. I’m no Bible scholar but I don’t think there are any scriptures to back up my statement. I would have quoted them if I knew of any. Obviously, that is supposition on my part. And since I’m taking about pre-creation times, it is doubtful that there would be any reference to it in Scripture.
    This whole Bible study business is pretty new to me but, over the past 70 years I’ve had some time to think things through. I’ve learned much about the Bible and Yehovah in just a few years (much of it from this site). And I will continue learning as best I can. So, please understand that at this point, I do not feel qualified to try to “convince” anybody of anything.
    I am interested in learning Truth though, and I’ve only recently discovered that the ONLY reliable source of Truth is the Torah.
    Nevertheless, I still believe that God gave me a brain for a reason and some things I believe have no Biblical reference to back them up. So, I don’t think you would be interested in the reasoning that led me to the statement above, So, I won’t go into it here. (Perhaps I should create a Facebook page to discuss the matter.)
    Did Yehovah create evil? Perhaps He did.. Or perhaps evil is simply an outcome of free will. For free will to be valid, the possibility for choice has to exist, therefore, by extension, evil has to exist.
    I have thought that Satan made a choice to oppose Yehovah. But I suppose he could have been programmed from the beginning to be evil. I don’t know. You’ve got me thinking.
    What I do know is that ultimately, Yehovah is in charge of the final outcome. And Yeshua is His means by which we may be part of that outcome. I also know that the Set Apart days are appointments He has made with us and I intend to keep them, as well as all the commandments. From that I can only hope that the Holy Spirit will lead me to what I NEED to know.
    Re: Isaiah 14. As you say, it is addressed to the King of Babylon.
    Does that necessarily mean that it is not also prophetic to the future King of Babylon?
    And are not Babylon and its rulers, under the government of Satan?
    And if so, could these passages not also be literally about Satan as he presents himself in that future King?
    If I read you correctly, you seem to be saying that Lucifer is not Satan. I’ve never looked into the matter. I guess I’ve just assumed they are one and the same since I’ve never heard any other opinion. I will have to look into it.
    Your comments give me much to think about and research. I thank you for that, David.
    Blessings in Abundance

    Reply
  31. David R Smith

    Greetings Ross,
    Wonderful to read of your new found walk and your faithfulness and obedience. May Yah guide you and shine His abundant grace upon you. All the best cleaning out the old deceptions as you dig deeper into the word of truth.
    Ross: “Did Yehovah create evil? Perhaps He did.”
    What do you doubt His word? How can you be successful in discovering truth if you disregard what the truth says?
    Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I Yahweh do all these things.
    Don’t you believe Lam 3:37, Job 2:10 and Am 3:6?
    Regarding “free will” it seems to me to be overrated since it’s never found in scripture whereas “predestination” and “foreknowledge” are claimed by God on numerous occasions. Again, do we believe Him or do we stick with what we’ve been taught.
    Ross: “I have thought that Satan made a choice to oppose Yehovah. But I suppose he could have been programmed from the beginning to be evil. I don’t know.”
    Once again what can I say but believe the word. Believe Yahshua in John 8:44. Also try and find a place in scripture where Satan was good and changed to evil.
    Ross: “If I read you correctly, you seem to be saying that Lucifer is not Satan.”
    He most certainly is not! Lucifer is a Latan word left over from Jerome’s Latan Vulgate and only found in scripture once (Isa 14:12) in some translations and for whatever reason was never translated. It means bringer of light or morning star. Who brings light?
    Rev 22:16 (Yahshua) I am the Root and the Offspring of David, THE BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR.”
    Lu 2:32 A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles
    Joh 8:12 I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.
    Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
    Oh my goodness there are just too many verses to get to that show Yahshua as the bringer of light and Satan as the opposite. What a sad situation where Satan has actually deceived people to call him the name reserved for our Saviour.
    Thanks Ross for your truthfulness and insights.
    Love and joy in Yahshua,
    David Smith

    Reply
  32. David R Smith

    Greetings Stephen,
    That’s heavy stuff but I think I understand a couple of things you wrote. Dare we assume that “from the beginning” might at least mean not half-way through or after the beginning. Of course we don’t have a focused picture of all the chronological events but let’s not use that to thwart Messiah’s clear statement. Satan was a murderer and a liar from his very beginning, from his very first day. Anyone with an open mind will believe Yahshua made sense on that occasion.
    Of course Paul had not apprehended for he was working out his salvation with “free and trembling” (Php 2:12).
    1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
    That’s because Paul knew predestination and foreknowledge were God’s prerogative and His alone. Paul, like all of us, rest in the mercy of the Almighty, Sovereign Creator.
    Shalom,
    David Smith

    Reply
  33. Steven Smith

    Just an observation to some of the comments I read. Isaiah 45:7 teaches that Yehovah did indeed create evil. For our own growth I suspect but it is fairly concrete in Isaiah’s writings that He did.
    Isa 45:7  forming light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil. I, ????, do all these.’ 

    Reply

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